Curse

The Great Al · Jun 10, 2006, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Hey, I've noticed that some people regard ether prodigy as one of the best elites, if not the best elite in the game. I have always been happy with elemental attunement (I use all elementalist spells) and the few times i tried out prodigy, i had energy problems. I don't want this thread turning into a prodigy vs attunement debate, but is there a proper time to use/not use this spell to make it more effectie than attunement? There's probably some sort of thread on this already, but search is disabled

unholy guardian · Jun 10, 2006, 02:30 AM // 02:30

Well from what i have seen, prodigy is a very good way to get a lot of energy back, the attunments really help you keep the energy from being depleted fast

My vote goes to prodigy personally, i was never really found of saving energy, but more recovering, either way you go, watch out for enchant strippers

joncoish · Jun 10, 2006, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Yeah I agree, I prefer skills that allow you to gain energy, rather then not use it so quickly. I haven't capped ether prodigy yet, and use ether renewal mostly right now. I find ether renewal is nice in the right build. Only thing is you really need a lot of enchantments and at least one spammable spell to make it work well. But in the right build it's really nice.

About ether prodigy though, I have read about how it works and it does seem like a nice way to get energy back. But it causes you to lose your enchantments, causes exhaustion, and causes like 2 hps damage for each point of energy you have. Isn't that a bit much? I have about 82 energy, depending on how many points I have into energy storage. So that equals about 164 hp damage, plus you lose whatever enchantments you have on you, and it causes exhaustion. Sounds like a bit much to me. I guess you need the trade off. Whereas ether renewal relies more on other spells, and thus controls your build more, ether prodigy works on it's own, so needs other trade offs. Still seems like a bit much though!

NatalieD · Jun 10, 2006, 04:06 AM // 04:06

You take 2 damage for each point of energy you have when it ends. That's never going to be your full base energy, if for no other reason that exhaustion will reduce that when you cast EP.

Seriously, the damage is rarely a serious concern - you just learn to play your energy close to the bottom of the bar. Don't cast EP until you're getting fairly low.

Stacked attunements are better than Ether Prodigy, with two important exceptions. The first is if you're facing any kind of enchantment removal, in which case the long recharges make attunements next to useless. The second is that Ether Prodigy helps you use non-elemental skills, like the pricier monk spells.

Oh, and Ether Prodigy only takes up one slot instead of two, which can come in pretty handy.

Falconer · Jun 10, 2006, 04:41 AM // 04:41

I've never had good results with dual attunements to be honost. They ALWAYS end up stripped... if people ask me to run it fine. But I prefer NOT to run it by default. It gets so bad I try and stagger the attunements by 25s or so. EG: so I always have one near recyling...

One very overlooked option that almost everyone forgets though is Glyph of Energy. And when I do see it used... it gets wasted on things like obsidian flame... which don't get the energy benefit, just avoid the exhaustion.

Put this another way... base elementalist 80 energy per minute. Glyph of Energy 60 energy per minute (just under actually... but close enough...). 80+60==140 * 1.3 ==182 energy per minute with the attunement returns and reduced exhaustion penalties. 2 skill slots. Can work as a secondary.

Granted not quite as nice as the theoretical 80*5=400 energy dual attunements can give you... but nowhere near that fragile! No exhaustion benefit either. 2 skill slots. Can work as a secondary.

From a similar perspective... 3 prodigies over the course of 60s... 10 pips regen... is 200 energy for a single skill slot freely usable, but with extra exhaustion. 1 skill slot. Can only work as a primary.

But always keep in mind... at the core of any elementalist (even the mesmer fast casting types) is the ability he has to effectively manage his energy better than anybody else. Any elementalist which can't do this should find another class... Also why I have a very poor opinion of many echo nukes... great you can toss 3 meteor showers in fast succession... what else can you do... and we don't have time to wait 90s for you to recover from one little scrap.

Ventius Hozza · Jun 10, 2006, 09:45 AM // 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falconer

I've never had good results with dual attunements to be honost. They ALWAYS end up stripped...

With a decent mesmer on the opposing team with decent comms, ether prod + shatter + impromtu spike = dead. AND you don't get to use ether prod for another 40 odd seconds when you get ressed.

El Dirigible · Jun 10, 2006, 10:14 AM // 10:14

In PvE I'd pick dual attunement over either Renewal or Prodigy any day of the week. True, it costs you two slots instead of one, but it also means that Rodgort's will cost you only 6 energy, instead of 25. Allows you to unload everything you have on your skill bar as quickly as they recharge, without having to worry about anything else.

In PvP, on the other hand, Prodigy's very confidently the winner, with most eles nowadays also spamming heal party, draw conditions, and whatnot else. And more often than not, Aura of Restoration seems to be insufficient as a cover ench, so attunements are relatitvely vulnerable to that as well.

But, as Falconer mentioned above, the most important factor in energy management is the player himself. If you can't pace yourself, neither attunements, prodigy, or renewal will be able to help you in the long run.

If you load up your bar with exhaustion causing skills or spam Obsidian Flame, dual attunements will be useless faced with a grayed out bar. Likewise with non-ele spells, attunements don't trigger on those.

So, as I see it, if you're running a pure ele build, Attunements are probably your most reliable e-management form. If you're aiming for a more mixed build, with your secondary profession being more than just a decoration, then Prodigy's probably more viable.

AndrewAtHome · Jun 10, 2006, 06:41 PM // 18:41

I use EP in PvP, and attunements in PvE. Simple.

Evilsod · Jun 10, 2006, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Dirigible

In PvE I'd pick dual attunement over either Renewal or Prodigy any day of the week. True, it costs you two slots instead of one, but it also means that Rodgort's will cost you only 6 energy, instead of 25. Allows you to unload everything you have on your skill bar as quickly as they recharge, without having to worry about anything else.

Obviously you've never played an Air Ele in PvE then. It all depends on how long you'll be fighting for and the enemies skills. Mursaat Mesmers spamming Power Leak and Energy Surge? Ele Attunement is useless. Anywhere with interrupts is, you don't get energy back for a failed spell.

The only time you ever use Ether Prodigy and end up with ~60 energy is between mobs or near the end of fights. The most you normally end up taking is about 30, and considering the damage output you get from the +10 regen, its a fair trade. Besides at lvl13 ES it lasts 18 seconds. Stick a 20% enchantments mod on something and you get a few seconds more. So aslong as you don't bring loads of exhaustion skills you only get ~9 seconds before Exhaustion is gone and you don't lose anything.

NatalieD · Jun 11, 2006, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ventius Hozza

With a decent mesmer on the opposing team with decent comms, ether prod + shatter + impromtu spike = dead.

If they can spike you by shattering Ether Prodigy, they can probably spike you by shattering anything. The damage added won't be very much under most circumstances.

Quote:

AND you don't get to use ether prod for another 40 odd seconds when you get ressed.

Huh? Why not?

The Great Al · Jun 12, 2006, 01:10 AM // 01:10

well i played the kurzick elite mission last night, when i go back there i will certainly take ether prodigy, my elem attune was getting stripped maybe 5 seconds after i put it on

Vermilion Okeanos · Jun 12, 2006, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Usually I don't use ether prodigy unless I am using something 2ndary with a high cost.

Glyph of renewal have been in my bar for serveral times, so did glyph of energy. While dual attument, I rarely ever use it... same reason as stated previous.

Francis Crawford · Jun 12, 2006, 03:56 AM // 03:56

In PvE, if interrupts are the problem, I just take Mantra of Resolve. Given that, I want every last bit of energy, so I usually take Dual Attunements.

If the big problem is actual stripping -- well, usually I'm just more careful about my aggro so as to be less of a target, and take Dual Attunements anyway.

Unless I'm farming, of course. Then it's Ether Renewal.